Sylvia and Paulette chat about cronehood and how it relates to art collecting, plus intuition, perimenopause, and pods of whales.
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Transcript
Lightly edited for reading.
Intro
Sylvia: Hi, I'm Sylvia, and welcome to the [Untitled] Crone House Podcast. So what is the Crone House? It is a women-led art gallery that I founded in 2024—October 31st, actually. And we connect the women still making art with the badass women collecting their work.
Sylvia: In our first episode, my co-host Paulette B. and I asked the question: What is a crone? It's not only a witchy hag old lady living in a little cottage in the woods. That's just one side of me. We both have our own answers to this question, both coming from very personal places. We also chat about how all of this relates back to a gallery and women collecting art. Keep listening to join us for that conversation—and then let us know how you crone in the comments!
Sylvia: Oh, one more thing. In this first episode, you'll hear the podcast referred to as "Pod of Crones," which was the name we decided on until we undecided on it. Was it ADHD? Was it perimenopause? We don't know, but we're rolling with it. So if you have ideas as to what we should call this thing, let us know. Maybe that's how we should frame every episode—asking our guests what the title of the show should be.
Conversation Begins
Sylvia: That's a good idea. So, okay—where are we going? To your lovely segue. Let's tell people about ourselves and where we are in the world and why we're doing Pod of Crones. All right. You start.
Sylvia: Hi. I'm Sylvia. I am the owner and founder of the Crone House, which is a women-led art gallery here in Richmond, Virginia. And our whole thing is connecting the amazing women still making art with the badass women collecting their work. I also am an artist—I'm a writer and ceramicist. They often come together in a variety of ways, and I also curate a lot of the shows.
Sylvia: And I am currently in my bed, which is my favorite place to be. Paulette and I, when we started talking about this, we made an agreement—or I suggested and she signed on to it—that we just show up as we are. So wherever we are, with the spoons that we have. And right now, my spoons are right here where I am, in my bed. So you will often join me here, and usually I will be wearing pajamas. So that's what you can expect from me, friends—my fellow crones. And I hope, if that's what you love and enjoy, you'll be wearing the same thing. And that's who I am. Paulette?
Paulette: Hi!
Sylvia: Hi. Why are you here, Paulette?
Paulette: Why am I here? Because you told me to be here. Oh wait, no—kidding. Jokes!
Paulette: So I'm Paulette. I am yapping at you from lovely Silver Spring, Maryland. I am also in my bed, because there's a lot of snow outside. I've just retired six months ago, and I'm like, you know what? I need to reclaim my bed as a good place to be since I'm not out the door all the time.
Paulette: I, too, am a writer—poet—and I'm a mixed media artist is what I think I am. I'm not sure. I'm working on that.
Paulette: Sylvia and I have known each other for—I think we figured out fifteen years—back when we were both social media mavens. And we've kept in touch and really started talking again when I decided to pivot into making visual artwork. Although I realized this morning it wasn't really a pivot, because I've been doing this on and off since graduate school and probably even before that. But other art forms that I was interested in kind of took center stage—poetry, I was a singer for a good long while, theater for a good long while. And now I'm in my visual arts phase, which is very exciting.
Paulette: And I've always, always, always valued having a circle of women. When I was a baby poet, I had a writing group, and they were women who were all older than me—some of them in their cronehood, some of them heading toward their cronehood. And I learned and grew so much from them. And now I'm excited to be in my wisdom phase. And yeah, that's where we are.
Paulette: Did that say anything? I don't know. Maybe?
Sylvia: That sounded like a lot of wonderful things. What did you do in your previous career before you retired? You don't have to tell us where you worked, but you can tell us.
Paulette: I worked for the federal government as a writer, editor, and starting in 2008, as social media manager.
Sylvia: Very cool.
Paulette: Yeah, I retired—I took early retirement. I am not 65, although I'm looking forward to 65, don't get me wrong. Retired early and I'm super excited to really be back to diving into having a creative life.
Sylvia: Amazing. You know, I really love that you said you're in your visual art phase, and I was just like—Taylor Swift came into my mind. It's like your era. Your visual art era. And I'm here for that.
Paulette: Cool.
Sylvia: Yeah. I do have a theater background as well—theater producer—but I've always been very involved with making sure I have visual arts always around me and doing things, but never calling myself an artist until about 41. In a visual artist sense, you know—as a writer and in the theater I did, but as a visual artist, not till very recently.
What Is A Crone?
Sylvia: The poet. What is a crone?
Paulette: What is a crone to me? A crone is—actually, the best way I have to tell it is to tell a personal story.
Paulette: When I turned 40, I was miserable. I threw three different parties. And it was a time when a lot of friendships were breaking up and it was just rough. I had been really excited about turning 40, and it just kind of—yeah, it was just kind of rough.
Paulette: And then I swear, on my 42nd birthday, I woke up and I felt as if I had had this incredible download of wisdom into my entire body. I mean, there was still obviously tons I have to learn and tons I'm still learning, but I don't even know how to describe it. I just woke up feeling like—oh. And to me, that's what cronehood is. It's accessing that wisdom which has accumulated over the life you've lived so far. It's accumulated over what you've inherited from the women in your family and chosen family. It's just a type of wisdom.
Paulette: And I'm very interested in the idea of women who were called witches and crones—they were women who tapped into each other, who tapped into nature, who tapped into the laws, so to speak, of the universe and the cycles. And it doesn't matter what religion you are—I find that there are just things that, no matter how you view the world in a spiritual sense, are the same. Like karma, which is to me the same as reaping what you sow.
Paulette: And so those people were demonized for patriarchal reasons and for reasons of power, etc., but that wisdom is still very powerful and very important. And also, we should be clear that not all of it is good. Of course, we get terrible ideas passed down to us as well. But I believe part of cronehood is exploring that and figuring out what is actual wisdom that's going to support us and help us grow—and help us help others in our community grow—and what is kind of just spiritual junk we've accumulated, because life is also about accumulating spiritual junk sometimes, right? Really figuring that out.
Sylvia: Yeah. And you, my dear—what does crone mean to you?
Sylvia: Not giving a fuck anymore. But not giving a fuck about the things that don't matter, right? And very much giving a fuck about the things that do—and leaning more into that.
Sylvia: And for me, it's about the circle of women you surround yourself with. Your chosen sisters. Because they are the ones that help you survive.
Sylvia: And I feel, you know, when we talk about crone through that patriarchal lens, it's the hag that lives in the scary cottage deep in the forest, plotting and planning and hexing. Although some people deserve to be hexed. Let's be real.
Sylvia: But really, crone and witch just being "wise woman"—which actually meets "wise woman." And the older I have gotten and the more discerning I've gotten about unmasking who I am and how I want to actually be present in the world and within my crone circle—my own cronehood—I just feel more grounded. I feel like you get more grounded as you get older, in my experience. Even when things are all over the place, and perimenopause makes you feel like you're crazy and blah, blah, blah, all these other things. At my core, though, I feel grounded because I have allowed myself to really sink into what cronehood is.
Sylvia: And I started reading a lot of books around ancient cultures that were matriarchal—the religion, if we can even call it that, because religion is man-made—but the spiritual self of a community, right? It was led by female deities. And there's a great book that I absolutely adore—When God Was a Woman—and thinking about it, they call it not the Great Mother, but the Great Ancestress. Right?
Sylvia: And so it's also pulling away from "women are only mothers." Like, you're the maiden—because of the triple goddess, you're the maiden, the mother, the crone. And in those three phases of our life, the crone is like—your job was done with society. Society was done with you because you were past childbearing years.
Sylvia: And as somebody who could never have a baby, even though I tried desperately for a very long time—the universe never wanted me to be a mom. It just wanted me to go straight to cronehood, you know? And so I was really ready after my infertility journey of ten years. I was primed to step into that part of my life. I'm not put out to pasture—I'm putting myself into a narrative, into a grounded narrative that is actually matriarchal in a different way.
Paulette: I also think that cronehood is mothering, right? And yes, there is a short time in which biologically we can be mothers, or through adoption or any of those ways. But I think there is also a larger time when it's not just about mothering within the family, but it's about mothering the community. And to me, that is an important part of what cronehood is.
Paulette: When I was still working, I was probably ten years older than many of the women in my department. And so when I started going through perimenopause, everyone heard about it graphically, because I didn't want anyone to feel like I did—scared and thinking I was going nuts and "why can't I remember words anymore?" And now that those women have entered perimenopause, more than a couple have said, "Thank you so much for talking about that. Now I know what to expect. I know I'm not crazy."
Paulette: So it's that—even though I wasn't a mother to my own children, I have always tried to be a mother to the community. And so to me, that is synonymous with cronehood.
Sylvia: I love that. I am so grateful to you, crone Gen Xers, who are determined to break that cycle of being silent about perimenopause and menopause. And as somebody who entered at 40—which we now know most women actually experience starting symptoms around that age—I am so grateful, because I have resources and community—the crone circle—to guide me through it. And we're so disconnected. As connected as we are digitally, we are so disconnected from everybody. And so I'm really excited about how the Crone House and the Pod of Crones are here to welcome in those next generations and passing on that wisdom.
Paulette: Yeah. I think it's interesting to hear from many women in their 40s and 50s how difficult it is to make friends, to keep friends—to have that circle. Because we're not used to having to be intentional about it, right?
Paulette: Two of the longest jobs I've had—both my government one and when I lived in Chicago, working at a finance firm—you know, a lot of the people that were assistants at the finance firm were my age. So I got an instant group of friends. I started at my government agency, again, a lot of people my age or close to it. Instant group of friends.
Paulette: But if you're not starting a new job or going to school, or especially if you do not have children where you can be part of the PTA or meet other parents, it is very hard to find that circle. And you need to be intentional about it.
Paulette: And I bring that back to the idea of crones in that—here's a place you can seek out where you can be intentional about finding support, finding friends, finding people to talk to. And not everyone has to be a capital-F Friend. Small-f friend is fine. An acquaintance, someone to go have dinner with or chat with, or know you have something in common with.
Paulette: But also to go back to who we were at 15 or 16, when it was not a big deal to call a friend. And yes, I don't mean you have to actually pick up a telephone—heaven forbid, I don't want to actually call anyone. But FaceTime is really nice. Or texting. You know what—when my office first got sent home at the start of the pandemic, so many people were like, "Oh, you know, I really miss talking to my friends." And meanwhile, I'm like, "Hey, so do you have time to chat today?" And I would just FaceTime people. I'm like—dudes, we have so much technology now that helps us to be intentional.
Paulette: There are so many spaces. And you know, even like Reddit—there's a whole community for women with ADHD and I'm all about that. And so I love that idea of gathering in, whether it's through listening to this podcast or joining a community of art lovers or just—whatever.
Paulette: I, of course, totally lost my train of thought.
Sylvia: Yeah, which is classic ADHD.
What Is The Crone House?
Sylvia: And, you know, we had a very tight, yummy little outline for this podcast, and we're 30 minutes in and we haven't even touched it. Which I think maybe this is about something else, though. Yeah. And it's like, maybe this podcast is about doing the crone thing.
Sylvia: We're supposed to talk to you about collecting, but I'm thinking that's the next one. What do you think?
Paulette: Yeah. What is the Crone House? And why are we talking about crones and women and artwork? And what actually is this podcast about? I think is a great way to have this conversation today—kind of moving away from what we had planned, which we'll do at the next one.
Sylvia: So, Crone House. For me, I started it about a year and change ago—October 31st of 2024 is our official birthday. We're a Scorpio. As an art gallery, I just really got sick and tired of hearing my friends—my long list of artist friends, specifically women who are visual artists—talking about not being able to get into galleries. Or they felt that doing their own shows and curating their own shows was just too big of a job, or they didn't have the resources.
Sylvia: I'm their biggest fan. Part of what I wanted to do this is because I love women who make art. Period. I've been around artists my whole life. I married an artist—a dude. But, you know, you can forgive me for that. And I've been doing these volunteer community art exhibitions over the last fifteen years.
Sylvia: And one day I was just like—why the hell not, right? I can do this. I've got all the skills to do this. My producing/director background from theater applies 100%. And it's got better hours anyway. I can be the ultimate hype person for these women—the women in my life that we've grown together, right? And we're all 35-plus, 40-plus years, and they're still struggling with the same damn—trying to get their artwork out there and not just depend on social media to self-promote, which is very exhausting. I was like, let's do it.
Sylvia: And the older I've gotten, the more I've gotten into the idea of what spirituality and womanhood and cronehood looks like. And it just kind of all worked. The term "witch" and "crone" is really about an independent woman who had her own mind, who often made her own living and understood nature and its cycles and how that applied to our inherent natural cycles. And I'm down for that. Why not have an art gallery that's inspired by those cycles?
Sylvia: And so it just kind of all came together. We do a lot of things around the Wheel of the Year. Because as women, we're very cyclical—we go in spirals. I think we go in spirals more than just a snake eating its tail, you know—more DNA-like, double helix. How beautiful is it that we can explore those things that we already inherently understand, not just as women, but as humans? That relationship and the wisdom that we can explore through artwork.
Sylvia: And so we've had three shows so far, which have been wonderful. Paulette was in this last one, which celebrated the winter solstice and the idea of deep rest. We did one in the summer with the summer solstice and then the winter solstice before that. And we've got a huge season coming up—we've got like eight shows. So we're doubling, almost tripling our programming and our art shows. Exploring all different parts of what nature and the universe and manifesting and mind expansion and soul expansion—to the very grounded and what's rooted—and exploring those through different mediums that women explore.
Sylvia: I don't know, did any of that make sense? Because I started going off on a tangent and then I lost my train of thought and was trying to bring it back home, but I think I still lost it.
Paulette: It did make sense. And I was thinking, while you were talking, about why I want to be a part of this. And for me it is because I can be my full self. I can bring my recently diagnosed neurodiversity, which I learned during perimenopause that I'd been masking so hard and for so long—when it all started to fall apart. But I can bring that. I can bring my ideas about spirituality. I think of myself as a recovering Christian, and I'm sure we'll talk about that at some point. I can bring myself as someone who's always been passionate about the work of women and supporting that, and just someone that loves the art world in general. And just creativity—it is amazing to me. Even if you go to TJ Maxx, and I love browsing the shelves. Not because everything's well-made and gorgeous and whatever, but I'm just like—wow, someone thought that up. And I just think that's so incredible that people are making things. And even more so when it is an individual making out of themselves.
Paulette: I also think—I love that one of the emphases of the Crone House is on collecting, because I think that is something, particularly for marginalized communities, that we don't talk about enough. It feels out of our reach. And I will tell you right now that on my five or six gallery walls, I have everything from photographs by Richard Avedon that I literally tore out of a magazine and framed, to two pieces that I've paid for, to two things I saw at the thrift store that I knew were handmade and wanted to take home.
Paulette: And so I'm excited—and that is, I think, what we're going to talk about on the next episode—but I'm excited to help people find that. Whether or not you decide to collect visual art or whatever, it's such a touchstone. And I'm also just interested in that idea of beauty, which is to me not necessarily something that's pretty or good-looking. It is something that you respond to, if that makes sense. I think you can see a photograph that's kind of crazy and still find it beautiful, because there is some response to it.
Paulette: So anyway, that's why. And also, as we were talking about—all our wisdom—when we have conversations about the future and what my part may be, I feel like it's really calling on every part of myself. Everything I've done, all the looking I've done, the graphic design I've done, the reading I've done, the writing I've done, being able to interview folks, the number of women artists I've spoken to both for my job and writing for Colossal. I just think—wow, this is a place for fullness, I think. For that, right? I think we're trying to gather people in to have a full experience of themselves, whatever that means for them. Bring yourself as you are and just resonate with whatever resonates with you.
Sylvia: Yeah. Yeah. And you'll feel it too—that sacral yes. Or that sacral "aha." You know, it lands with you. And I love you talking about that. It's an opportunity for fullness, right? And talking about the full conversation of what makes up a gallery—that ecosphere. And that is not just the gallery and the art, but the collector and the artist. And that hub is only enriched by the fullness of all types of women.
Sylvia: I agree. And also, I've been very, very mindful of what our core values are, and one of them is belonging. And what does belonging actually mean? You know, we use the word "women," but women, femininity, divine feminine—feminine is a spectrum. Trans women, femme energies, nonbinary. If you feel like you're on that spectrum somewhere, you belong here.
Sylvia: And let me just get biological for a moment. We all start out as women. Yes. I mean—what? Yeah. We all have the heart to start with. We're all both. And this is about tapping into that, whatever that may mean. I think of it more as a Venn diagram—you know, with that nice spectrum that blends in the middle. It's multi-dimensional. It's almost liminal space that we can live in.
Sylvia: And as a gallery, having our table there and always having extra seats available at that table for whoever wants to take a seat and join us in these amazing conversations and enjoying and talking about this beautiful art—fullness, possibility, opportunity. These are all the things that are swirling in my head right now. I'm obsessed with that.
Outro
Sylvia: Allow me to preemptively put a plug in. When you've listened to this two, three, four times and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I really want to super hang out with Paulette and Sylvia"—which of course you will—make some comments, let us know. Is there a show that you've been dying to see? Let us know. Are there other words that come to mind for you when you think about everything we've been talking about?
Sylvia: This is a podcast. We are presenting something to you, but I think it's a conversation.
Paulette: It's a conversation. And that is one thing I've really appreciated since starting this journey with Sylvia—that we have truly been in conversation. And I like to think that every time we walk away, we're both expanded in some way. And yeah, we want you to gather with us and be in conversation with us—with the gallery.
Sylvia: We are Pod of Crones and we are just whale-calling to each other like the matriarchs that we are.
Paulette: Stop it. Not a whale call.
Sylvia: Yes! That is what we're doing.
Sylvia: Also, I would really love—one of the things that we're going to be doing on this podcast, it's not just going to be me and Paulette talking and going on tangents. Although that would be amazing and we will do that often. Part of this ecosphere is, like I said, not just the gallery, but the artist and the collectors. And there are other folks involved in this space too—like independent curators, art buyers, philanthropists—and through art giving in different ways. We want to invite all of those folks into the conversation and actually be on the podcast.
Sylvia: The artist that you love—we want to talk with them about their process. What are the pros and cons of working with a gallery? A lot of artists don't see the point of a gallery, whereas a lot of artists feel that it is a vital step in their professional career. And the argument against it is the ability to self-promote through social media and all of the tech tools that we have for communication and putting ourselves out there. Their relationship with their art. How do they—like, why did they choose their medium? What was it that clicked for them? How does it continue to evolve?
Sylvia: And then other—I like to call them my gallery gal pals, but Paulette doesn't like—
Paulette: It was a contender for the show.
Sylvia: It was a high contender, and then she vetoed it very quickly. I respect that.
Sylvia: But other gallery gal pals who run their own galleries—there are so many small independent galleries, many here in Richmond, that have their own niche and are doing amazing things.
Sylvia: Also, we have a ton of businesses here in Richmond, and I know it happens all over mid-size cities and smaller. Art doesn't just happen in the big cities, right? We utilize venue partners because we don't have our own permanent space yet, but we're working towards it. So we work with other business owners—women-owned businesses, let's be clear—where they want art on their walls and we fill it. And a lot of our businesses in town do rotating gallery. They bring in local artists, artists from all over the country. They do a proper art installation. It's not a pop-up—it is a rotating gallery that just happens to also be a business for another thing. They have wall space. They're proud of the artists that come from our community.
Sylvia: There is a hunger from artists here—and I would even say artists from marginalized communities and women who don't get those traditional pathways. Having businesses open up their walls for us as a gallery or a nomadic gallery, or for individual artists, is amazing.
Sylvia: We can also talk about other ways women show their artwork. One of the ways is craft shows and artist walks, right? And artist fairs. Those are an important part—finding different avenues to get their work out there because they've been kept from traditional models. And it actually creates a really full, incredible experience. But I know that want and that craving to be in a gallery is still very present with a lot of artists. And right now, we're kind of blending both parts of that. And when we do have our space, it'll be that witchy little cottage gallery in the woods. Will truly be a crone circle.
Paulette: Also was a contender for our show title.
Sylvia: Am I right in thinking that we should be wrapping this up?
Paulette: Yes, we should be. We've been talking for a while. And may I ask you, Miss Sylvia, to please let our listeners know the URL where you can find us and also the Instagram handle?
Sylvia: The big two are our website—thecronehouse.com—don't forget the "the." And then the other one is Instagram. As much as I hate Instagram, I know we have to be there.
Paulette: I love Instagram.
Sylvia: I love certain parts of it. I don't want to be the person dancing in front of the camera to get people's attention—
Paulette: But that's a TikTok thing. Okay—nope. Keep going. Sorry.
Sylvia: Okay, this is what happens. We're trying to wrap it up, and all of a sudden my brain's like, "let's talk about TikTok!" Sorry. Go ahead.
Paulette: TikTok has influenced Instagram to the point that Instagram is just TikTok with a little Instagram.
Sylvia: That's true. Okay, but anyway—you can find us at @cronehouserva. There! Yay!
Sylvia: Don't forget—in the comments below, make sure you tell us who you want us to be talking with. Who inspires you? Why? What kind of topics do you want us to talk about? Paulette and I have so many ideas, but we also want to make sure that we're honoring all of you and what you want to listen to and hear us gab about and talk with and get excited and nerdy and ADHD-tangent about.
Sylvia: Don't forget to like this podcast wherever you're listening.
Sylvia: So—the next episode will be all about why we collect. Paulette and I have two very different reasons, and I'm really excited to talk about those. And we really want to hear from you. Why do you collect art? So if you let us know below, maybe we'll shout some of those out.
Paulette: Oh, that'd be cool.
Sylvia: All right, so long, friends!
Paulette: I'm waving—I don't know why I'm waving. Maybe you'll see this in the video. I don't know.
End Card
Sylvia: Our summer solstice show Across the Universe opens June 4th at Studio One Twenty in Richmond. Artwork inspired by mind-expanding practices. Artists gifting us their soul-bending experiences on the longest days of the year. On view through July 31st. RSVP at thecronehouse.com. It's going to be groovy, y'all.